Finding Enduring Joy Beyond Circumstance with Mark Feldmeier
In this heartful episode of To Be and Do, host Philip Amerson welcomes back Mark Feldmeier, lead pastor at St. Andrew United Methodist Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado, and author of Life After God: Finding Faith When You Can't Believe Anymore. Their conversation invites listeners into a rich exploration of where joy is found in our lives, what it means to serve, and the importance of purpose, even amid life's challenges.
After opening with a charming story of conversing with statues on the campus of Indiana University, Philip Amerson pivots to a powerful question he’s asked others: “What brings you joy?” This moment sets the tone for the episode, prompting Mark Feldmeier to distinguish between happiness—a fleeting, circumstantial feeling—and joy, which he sees as enduring and deeply rooted in meaningful service.
The journey of the episode travels through stories of "good tired," the type of exhaustion that comes from giving oneself to a purpose larger than the self. Mark Feldmeier shares a vivid memory from a mission trip, where circumstances were less than ideal, yet the experience of serving and persevering fostered an unshakable sense of joy. This leads to a broader reflection on the "tug between joy and exhaustion" that defines much of modern life, especially for those in calling-centered work.
Mark's reading habits offer another window into his approach to growth and inspiration. He discusses maintaining a robust reading practice—even through demanding seasons—and credits mentors and writers for shaping his preaching and language. This episode pays homage to the power of words, poetry, and stories to form us, both in the pulpit and in everyday life.
Near the close, listeners are offered a glimpse into the objects that keep Mark Feldmeier grounded: a labyrinth coaster reminding him that the journey is more important than the endpoint, and a Camino tile symbolizing trust in the next step rather than the entire plan—a perfect metaphor for faith and life.
Key Takeaways:
- Joy transcends circumstances: Rather than fleeting happiness, lasting joy often emerges from connecting our sense of purpose with service to others.
- Service and calling sustain us: Even during exhaustion and adversity, being rooted in a mission larger than ourselves offers resilience and hope.
- Reading shapes language and leadership: Ongoing learning and exposure to great literature deepen the artistry and effectiveness of communication, whether in sermons or in daily life.
- Symbols help orient our journey: Objects or reminders—a labyrinth, a Camino tile—can anchor us and illustrate that the journey itself is formative.
- Find meaning in the journey: We don’t need to know every step of the path; faithfully taking the next turn can be enough for progress and growth.
This thoughtful exchange is both grounding and uplifting, inviting listeners to reflect on where joy comes from, how to serve with purpose, and how to walk the journey of faith and life with authenticity and hope.
For more conversations like this, subscribe to To Be and Do and join us on the journey of becoming and doing with joy.
Transcript
Well, we welcome you back to the To Be and Do podcast. This is Phil Amerson, and I'm having the joy, the fun of visiting with Reverend Mark Feldmeier, who's the lead pastor at St. Andrews United Methodist Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado. His book is Life After God, Finding Faith when youn Can't Believe Anymore. And Mark and I have already shared one podcast. But on this podcast, I want to begin with a story, Mark, and let you riff off of that. I was recently on the campus of Indiana University. I don't know if you've heard out there in Colorado.
Philip Amerson [:I know you're in a different world, but we actually have a little challenge going on in some of our universities around the country. Some people believe that we need to get rid of diversity, equity, and inclusion, and we need to clean up curriculum and sort everything so that it fits in the right set of ideological lenses. So I've been on campus talking with the statues there with the great old leaders, and Herman B. Wells was the grand old president and chancellor, deeply committed to academic freedom, and he was a member of First United Methodist Church, Bloomington, when I was pastor. And so I go and sit down and talk to Herman and record some of those. And my grandson said, grandpa, why are you talking to a statue? And my response was, he seems to be the only one listening these days. But what I discovered was people would come by and I would begin to speak with them. And the question that elicited the most fascinating set of responses was when I would say to them, pretty quick, quickly, what brings you joy? I didn't start with my rave about academic freedom or that they're spending all the money on a football team, by the way, the national championship football team, I hope, and not on the academy.
Philip Amerson [:But the better introductory question is, what brings you joy? So, Mark Feldmeier, what brings you joy?
Mark Feldmeier [:Well, I have to distinguish. When I answer that question, I distinguish between happiness and joy. And I think there's a fundamental difference between the two. And happiness, on the one hand, tends to be associated with circumstance, with sort of momentary success or glimpses of, you know, of happiness. And yet there is another expression that I think is more gospel, another experience, and that's joy, which has a more enduring value and is able to transcend circumstance, whether it's personal or the mess at the university or with our current political climate. And I think what typically, what almost invariably I should say what gives me joy is when I'm able to connect my own sense of calling and vocation or purpose in the world with the need in the world. And I was thinking about a story years ago at my previous church, when I was leading a church in San Diego. I took a group of young people to Los Angeles for a week long mission trip.
Mark Feldmeier [:And we were supposed to go paint a house for an elderly couple. It was all part of the. We were just assigned a job. And so we had about a dozen of us anyway, we were in South Central and nothing really went particularly well. Nobody was especially happy. The whole week we slept on a gym floor. There were mice everywhere. I think there was an outbreak of lice in the group.
Mark Feldmeier [:One really bad night of. Of food poisoning from some bad spaghetti sauce. And it was just one thing after another. And then we were sent to the wrong house to paint. And that didn't really go over well with the homeowner. But we got through it. We survived and we actually served. And it was.
Mark Feldmeier [:At the end of the day, it was meaningful. We were driving home and I looked at one of these kids and I said, you know, are you tired? He said, he said, yeah, I'm exhausted. But he said, it's a good tired. And, and I thought, you know, that's. That's joy. As odd as it sounds, to have something good to work for and toward in the world, that leaves us tired, but not depleted. And in a world right now where most of us are depleted of energy and attention and patience and grace, to have something to give ourselves toward in service, it always gives me joy and. And it beats happiness by a lot.
Philip Amerson [:Yes, it does. Tired but not depleted.
Mark Feldmeier [:Yeah.
Philip Amerson [:Do you find yourself there often?
Mark Feldmeier [:You know, every day I feel sort of that tug between that joy, on the one hand that can't be depleted, and just the utter exhaustion. And I was just telling somebody the other day, actually that there was a time, especially in the middle of the pandemic and as we started pulling out of the pandemic and reopening, that I would come to church and I would have a mailbox full of notes that were mostly negative and not supportive. Why are we wearing masks? Why do we close down? Why are you preaching about racism? And man, it was so. It was so depleting. And there wasn't a lot of joy or happiness and all that. But. But we're in a new space now and. And I come to work most days and I.
Mark Feldmeier [:The notes that I get are, are positive and supportive and, you know, so those come and go, but if I have something to ground me in this understanding that, that I'm. That I'm serving that, that I'm connected to a purpose bigger than myself. That's. That's what keeps me from running out of gas. Yeah.
Philip Amerson [:Yeah. I. One of my favorite quotes is Wes Jackson, the agriculturalist, good friend of Wendell Berry's. He. He started something called the Land Institute, and I sort of lived. Live by these notions. He says, if your life's work can be accomplished in your lifetime, then you're not thinking big enough.
Mark Feldmeier [:Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. Yeah.
Philip Amerson [:And that's how that helps me calibrate what gives me joy.
Mark Feldmeier [:And part of that is knowing that even when. When our work is done and we're no longer here, that the work that we do is carried on by somebody else. That's hope. That gives us some degree of satisfaction and fulfillment.
Philip Amerson [:Okay, so I want to talk about. Is there joy in baseball? I mean, I see this image over your shoulder, and I can't tell if that's surely not San Diego Padres, and it's not the Pirates. Is there another team that might have those approximate colors?
Mark Feldmeier [:You got it right. It's the Pirates. And it's a bobblehead of Roberto Clemente, who. Died with exactly 3,000 hits. And I've always been inspired by his story, A. Because I'm a huge Dodger fan, and I'm sorry to say, I know many people will disparage me for that, but I will say Roberto Clemente was originally drafted by the Dodgers. They lost him in what's called the Rule 5 draft. They didn't protect him.
Mark Feldmeier [:He was taken by the Pirates, became a future hall of Famer, and 3000 hits. But the story, which I think is mostly true, was that he showed up on basically the last day of the last game of the season and wasn't going to play and was going to wait it out to get his 3,000th hit next year because it was going to help ticket sales and all this stuff. And he was convinced by one of the commentators up in the booth to suit up and play, and so he did, and he got a double and finished his career with 3,000 hits. And then just weeks later, was tragically told in a. In a plane crash while he's delivering earthquake aid to Nicaragua, I think, or whatever it was. But, yeah, so I hold that as that. That bobblehead is just a reminder to show up and suit up and shut up and do the work there, you know, when you don't feel like it, you know.
Philip Amerson [:Well, the other thing that I. I kind of suspected was you would talk about the Best band in the world.
Mark Feldmeier [:Yeah. There's plenty of evidence of you two fandom here in my office. But, you know, I. You'll find U2 songs, even last week, creeping into my.
Philip Amerson [:Into.
Mark Feldmeier [:Into my preaching. And I try to do it in ways that aren't gimmicky, but to lift up some lyrics or some imagery in their songs, which are deeply poetic, I think, and powerfully spiritual. So a good way to connect with people.
Philip Amerson [:So what are your reading habits, Mark? You read so widely, it appears, and quote generously from various venues. Tell me what your habits are.
Mark Feldmeier [:Well, I. I will honestly say there was a time where I was. My goal was to read a book a week, and I did that actually, up until just after Covid, when I got back from, you know, sort of the shutdown, and. And things were all about reopening. But. But I still read anywhere from 25 to 35 books a year. And I try to read some theology. Right now.
Mark Feldmeier [:I try to read anything that's new and in process or open relational theological thought. I read a little bit of poetry, but I try to read books. Like right now I'm reading Scott Galloway's book, Notes to a Young Man, I think is what it's called.
Philip Amerson [:Yeah, that's a fine book.
Mark Feldmeier [:Yeah, and it's a great book. And it's helping. In fact, I've used it in a couple of pastoral care encounters with folks here at St. Andrew, acknowledging how far. How far we've left behind our young men and boys in our culture and the gaps that they're experiencing in the modern world and the needs that. That we're seeing. And of course, I've got. My youngest is 22.
Mark Feldmeier [:And so as I'm listening to this or reading this book, I'm. I'm listening to his own stories and his. In Matt's own life, my son, and, and where he's headed.
Philip Amerson [:So.
Mark Feldmeier [:So I. I'm trying to read 30 to 45 minutes a day sometimes is all I've got. But I'll. If that's all I've got, that's what I'll do. And, And I've got a. A stack of 50 plus books right now. So it's. But that's.
Mark Feldmeier [:But reading. And I learned this early on from a mentor that I had, Chuck Simmons, back in the Calpat Conference, who's died five or six years ago now. But. But Chuck taught me that to be a good preacher, you have to be a good reader. And, And Chuck would feed me all kinds of like Annie Dillard and books of poetry. And I learned a lot from him about the power of reading, power of words.
Philip Amerson [:Well, I probably shouldn't say this, especially on a podcast that's going to be public, but one of the things I shared with you that I find is true is reading shows in the language that's used in preaching. And it's at. It's at a deep. It's at a subterranean level, perhaps, but there have been some sermons you've preached. And I look at my spouse and say, well, that was iambic pentameter for that last two paragraphs.
Mark Feldmeier [:Yeah, yeah. And I tend to. I. Because I write my sermons and I write with the ear in mind. I pay attention to the location and the words, the rhythms of sentences, the shape of paragraphs, knowing that some poetry, whether it feels words, intentional poetry, or just a sort of poetic verse to it, I think people. And actually, I just heard a couple weeks ago somebody said that was great poetic work you did, and I take great pride in that. And that only comes from reading and being exposed to great writers.
Philip Amerson [:So in closing, you may have already done this. We'll test. I sometimes ask my guests if there is an image, a book, a photograph, an object that they keep nearby or often think of that helps them. Helps them know where they are on the journey or what the journey is all about. Do you have something like that in your office or in your home or in your mind that assists you?
Mark Feldmeier [:I have a little. It's. It's actually a little. Two things. One, it's a little cup, you know, a thing to put my hot cup on, on my desk. And it's a labyrinth. And. And I.
Mark Feldmeier [:I see it every day.
Philip Amerson [:I.
Mark Feldmeier [:It's. It's there to remind me that there, in some ways, it's.
Philip Amerson [:It's.
Mark Feldmeier [:Yeah, it's not about the endpoint, but.
Philip Amerson [:But.
Mark Feldmeier [:But this journey is. Is its own sort of process of becoming and evolving, of birthing, you know, along the way. So that's one. The other is a tile that I have on my desk over here from the Camino, which I've walked portions of the Camino three times now. And if anybody's familiar with the Camino, the Camino de Santiago, that is, you know, you're guided along the journey with a simple. Either a shell or a yellow arrow that points the direction. And you'll see these tiles along the Camino every 3km, 2 or 3km, and at every turn to show you where to go. And I.
Mark Feldmeier [:I think it's a wonderful, for me, a wonderful reminder of. You don't have to. You don't have to know the whole way. You just have to know the next turn and pay attention to the signs and. And you can make the whole. You can make the whole trip that way.
Philip Amerson [:So that's terrific. Well, thank you, Mark feldmeier, pastor of St. Andrew United Methodist Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado. Let's take this journey together again. One of these days, maybe in six months or so, I'll. I'll dial you up again and see if we can't catch up. God bless Phil Amerson for the belonging exchange. Take care, Mark.
